Pivot exporting in 4k?!

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Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby Jojishi » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:33 pm

I've been exporting regularly in 1080p, but since 4k (aka 2160p) is coming into the future, I thought this might be interesting (but also hilarious).

To make the most of this, I'll be using Cwoke's DDC8 which is known for its high amount of detail. These are the dimensions:

Image

In cases where the dimensions give exactly a 16:9 ratio, any side (height or width) can be used. This animation isn't exactly 16:9, which means we need to use the side which is biggest. If we don't, we'll end up with an image that's too big. So to find the side that's biggest, we enter in one of the numbers in an aspect ratio calculator.

I entered in the width as "600". This gives a pixel height of "337.50" for a 16:9 ratio. 340 is larger than 337.50, and means that Cwoke's DDC8 isn't exactly 16:9. It's higher than it is wide. We know the side we need to use, which is the height.

Now to find how to export it at the resolution we want, we use this little equation:

Height or width needed ÷ height or width we have.


So for this animation, we don't just want 720p or even 1080p... We want crazy 4k sharp. 4k dimensions are 3840 width, 2160 height (this is where 2160p comes from). So...

2160 ÷ 340 = 635

With this number, we have just found the percentage we need to export at for the 4k resolution.

We'll be re-sizing at 635%... (Absolutely crazy!) Hopefully Pivot doesn't nope out on us.

Image

Super Sampling is at 4 (for the anti-aliasing) and compressing so our file size isn't ridiculous. When the compression window popped up, I selected the Lagarith Lossless Codec in the drop-down menu (recommended by Peter Bone himself).

Now to export... It worked and it took 7 minutes, 47 seconds. File size:

Image

Performance:

Image

Now for a comparison with 1080p. 1080 ÷ 340 = 318

It took significantly less time at 2 minutes, 2 seconds. But this is no surprise considering it's 4 times as less pixels that have to be rendered. File size:

Image

Not as significant of a reduction in the file size, but still more than halved. I thought it would have been 4 time less personally, but there you go. So 4k = 47.4MB, 1080p = 22.3MB.

Performance:

Image

So in terms of performance, it looks like the CPU was utilised exactly the same between the 4k and 1080p exports. The thing which saw a difference was the memory utilisation, with 3GB RAM used for 4k (38% total RAM) and 2.2GB (28%) for the 1080p version. As far as I know Pivot doesn't use the GPU. For reference, when I render in Premiere (which uses the GPU as well) render times are ten times as fast.

But another thing to consider is that the CPU performance stayed the same for both exports, so maybe a limit with Pivot meant the CPU couldn't be utilised more.

What is better?

4k, obviously since it's a bigger resolution. But let's just check a single frame from both versions:

First, 1080p:
http://i.imgur.com/xR1iS18.png

4k:
http://i.imgur.com/0SHevl9.png

That's not right, is it? Surely I got the versions muddled up? Well, take a look:

1080p
Image
(if you're wondering why it's 1084, sometimes Pivot's just weird or I rounded up something when I wasn't meant to :( )

4k
Image

So as you can see, the 4k version actually looks worse on my 900p monitor. There is more aliasing (jaggies) on the 4k image. Maybe super sampling needs to be bumped up to 8 if you do 4k? I have no idea, but you can't go above super sampling 4 for Pivot anyway.

In conclusion, I'd say you're actually better off exporting in 1080p still.
  • Most people don't have 4k monitors or TVs (yet...)
  • Animation is still either 720p (for TV) and 1080p (movies)
  • Long render times
  • Bigger file size
  • Actually looks worse somehow

Want the best quality? Then without a doubt use 1080p. None-the-less, this was all pretty interesting to me and I thought I'd share with you guys. :D

Oh, and of course what is this thread without the actual videos themselves?

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby Gary » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:06 pm

huh, didn't think that this was a thing that could be done with pivot. good find joji
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby Ray » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:27 pm

The future is now. I agree, good find Joji. Imagine entries like Senzo's ddc12 or your dbz 4 in 4k?

And its also pretty cool for flash as well.
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby XElite109 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:16 am

omg i just realized those are some of the most disturbing eyes i've ever scene in pivot thats so nasty what cwoke did lol
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby Jojishi » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:47 am

Ray wrote:The future is now. I agree, good find Joji. Imagine entries like Senzo's ddc12 or your dbz 4 in 4k?

And its also pretty cool for flash as well.

But while it can be done, there is a lot of aliasing. If you compare the two example images with the black line, you can see all the jagged edges in the 4k image while the 1080p one looks smoother. In this case, 1080p looks better, takes less time to render and is a smaller file size.

Anyway, I was mostly bored and thought it would be funny and cool to try this so I did. If Peter wants 4k to be possible with Pivot, he'll probably want higher super sampling in Pivot 5. Other things of note were render times which could be increased if the CPU was utilised more and possibly GPU acceleration. Of course, Pivot would only be able to do this if the specs are there for it.

Yeah I agree XElite, the eyes are a bit creepy. They go concave a lot too which is weird lol.
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby Lord » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:49 am

To be honest I don't see the need for 4k in Pivot as near nothing has that level of quality needed, though I did notice the sharper lines on the glass in the 4k version.
Nice one Joji. ;)
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby ZucchiniJuice » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:55 am

Huh. I didnt think my computer would be able to see a difference between the 4k and the 1080p. Because you know, I dont have a 4k monitor. But surprisingly, I see the 4k one much sharper, and more pixely. Then the 1080p one was more anti-analysed. But I think thats just youtube. The 1080p one would be as sharp as the 4k one, its just youtube puts the anti-analysing. Personally, I dont think we even need higher that 1080p for basic colored animations like those made in pivot. Sometimes you want that blurryness to give off that cinema-feel. But, still, having 4k up is still pretty cool.

Honestly, I suck at any percise-detail cnc. I can do big picture ones cnc pretty good tho.
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby tuna » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:26 am

idk why everyone says 1080p was better, 4k was much sharper for me and i dont have a 4k monitor. good research tho, interesting read.
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Re: Pivot exporting in 4k?!

Postby Vito » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:50 am

I like these kind of idea, Good job Joji thanks for sharing :)
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