Future Pivot feature suggestions (e.g. bendy lines)

[Jojishi]

I thought that too, but not exactly. You could still have multiple back joints and it would be useful. With one joint it bends out the most in the center, but for certain movements of the body you'll find that the extremities can be in different places along the back. It's definitely going to make back movements a lot easier in general though.

This is a really great feature Peter. I'm pretty hyped up for Pivot 5 now.

[peterbone]

Thanks Static. You've done it again. Not sure how this was missed for so long. I see the problem. Clicking the frame in the timeline that is being edited normally reverts the changes incase you want to ignore the changes. Problem is that if you delete a background then it can't revert the changes because the background is now gone for good. I'll fix this for 4.2.

I may add an option for disabling snapping in 4.2. I'd like to keep it snapping by default for beginners so you'll probably have to hold down shift and ctrl at the same time while stretching a segment to stop it snapping. Same with bendy lines in v5. I won't use ctrl for bendy lines - that's just for the demo.

I think that some of you haven't fully appreciated how useful bendy lines could be, so here are a few ways I see them being used.
- The body of figures, instead of multiple straight lines.
- Ropes and other bendy objects such as an archer's bow.
- Creation of backgrounds and ground (hills, etc) using fewer segments.
- To create the illusion of movement. In the same way motion blur is used, I think bendy lines can do this - for limbs for example. Think about how a pencil appears bendy when you wave it about quickly. People have been using this technique for hand drawn animations for years.
- More realistic collisions - deformable objects.
- Much faster to position figures that need to be bendy because you have to move far fewer handles.

Bent lines are arcs (sections of a circle), so the bend has the same curvature along it's length. If you want a line with varying curvature then you'll still need multiple segments, but far fewer than you'd need with straight segments.

Edit:
I've updated the demo
- Extra line figure so you can play more with making curves.
- Caps Lock now bends lines, not Ctrl.
- holding Shift key while bending prevents snapping.

[Foley]

Will this feature support circles so they can be elliptic?

That is gonna be such a time-saver.

[Coweetie]

I may add an option for disabling snapping in 4.2. I'd like to keep it snapping by default for beginners so you'll probably have to hold down shift and ctrl at the same time while stretching a segment to stop it snapping. Same with bendy lines in v5. I won't use ctrl for bendy lines - that's just for the demo.

An option to avoid the snapping would be great! I think much animators would like it.

I think that some of you haven't fully appreciated how useful bendy lines could be, so here are a few ways I see them being used.
- The body of figures, instead of multiple straight lines.
- Ropes and other bendy objects such as an archer's bow.
- Creation of backgrounds and ground (hills, etc) using fewer segments.
- To create the illusion of movement. In the same way motion blur is used, I think bendy lines can do this - for limbs for example. Think about how a pencil appears bendy when you wave it about quickly. People have been using this technique for hand drawn animations for years.
- More realistic collisions - deformable objects.
- Much faster to position figures that need to be bendy because you have to move far fewer handles.

I would like to give you some feedback of a year long user of Pivot and pivot lover (..hi! : D )
I am not speaking for people who just begin with pivot. I want to tell you how (maybe) some people use pivot. This is my experience with it.


- body of figures- most people make figures with bendABLE backs or bendABLE segments to make them bend at any time- bending it like in your demo would mean that a segment only could bend in the middle, which isn't the case when using more segments.

- ropes- I always enjoyed the possibility to move every joint of a rope on its own to make it move nice.

Imagine the bendy tool on one single segment. The segment moves like a wave. Not like a rope.

Ok so far, for amateurs I guess. Imagine bendy segments on a rope with more than one, like, 3 segments. every segment has the same bending point. I couldn't make a good rope with it, since every segment only has one point where it bends- makes me think about making more segments to make it more realistic- which makes me think about animating it "old style" to get it good.
Sure, there will be a way to make it possible and realistic with the bendy segments. I am just questioning if it really would be easier.


- Creation of backgrounds and ground (hills, etc) using fewer segments- yes, that would be useful. But since I didn't see a limit of segments by now, It would'nt be that neccessary (I created a PIV with at least 400 or 500 segments, if not more, connected with others and it still works fine.)

-To create the illusion of movement- This is a nice Idea, and yes, i would appreciate this. but on the other hand, you are saying that the segment is just bending with the original length- which would mean, that it will be neccessary to add segments to make a big bending complete (I hope you can understand what I mean)- or to stretch the segment- which would, I guess, cause a different way of bending.


-More realistic collisions - Every animator I know by now uses editor mode to make it. Since your new update, making stretching easier, uses more joints, or simply adds more joints afterwards and then stretches it.
I personally use transparent windows to make such demolished figures. I click "edit" and place it over the actual figure, and then make a new figure. With transüarent windows I can see the original figure and the one I just edit right now.
there would be a very big place for improvement: I cannot see the actual figure withwout adding a new segment- when I am about to add a new segment, I can see the figure without the red dots.


I want to give you feedback with this, please don't hate me now :/ The bendy tool is a cool Idea, but I think it is not that useful.



what I personally would really wish for, would be a polyfill option (just saying again)
Means, the option to fill a space with color.
Not circles. Did you ever see stykz? I don't want to advertize but simplify what I am questioning... I would highly appreciate the ability to select at least 3 joints of a figure and make the selected space filled with color.

[peterbone]

Coweetie, consider bendy lines in a similar way to tweening in Pivot 5. Tweening will only be linear, so if you want to do nonlinear movements then you'll have to add more keyframes. However, you'll still need far fewer frames than without tweening at all and the movements will look smoother. Same with bendy lines. If you want a curved figure with nonlinear curvature, then you'll have to use more segments, but still fewer than with no bending at all and the result will look much smoother - especially if you scale up when you export. Obviously you can't make a rope from 1 segment. You still need multiple segments, but it will be quicker with bendy lines because you'll need fewer of them and the result will look smoother.

Bending will work with stretching, as I said in my first post.

With Bendy lines I expect you to not have to build new figures as often, in the same way that you no longer have to build a new figure to stretch a segment.

I do know about the polyfill feature in stykz.

[Coweetie]

Coweetie, consider bendy lines in a similar way to tweening in Pivot 5. Tweening will only be linear, so if you want to do nonlinear movements then you'll have to add more keyframes. However, you'll still need far fewer frames than without tweening at all and the movements will look smoother. Same with bendy lines. If you want a curved figure with nonlinear curvature, then you'll have to use more segments, but still fewer than with no bending at all and the result will look much smoother - especially if you scale up when you export. Obviously you can't make a rope from 1 segment. You still need multiple segments, but it will be quicker with bendy lines because you'll need fewer of them and the result will look smoother.

Bending will work with stretching, as I said in my first post.

With Bendy lines I expect you to not have to build new figures as often, in the same way that you no longer have to build a new figure to stretch a segment.

I do know about the polyfill feature in stykz.

I see what you mean. Still, the demo looks unsmooth, but i guess you change that soon anyways. I guess, the users of pivot will show if the bendy function is wanted or not.
And yes, you mentioned that the stretching will work with the bending.. I can not imagine now, but wouldn't be the segment , if dragged long, change it's main position of bending?

about the fill option- do you maybe consider to take it in pivot? It would be awesome.

[peterbone]

It only looks unsmooth because of aliasing. If you export with supersampling then it will look smooth. It will still look like a perfect smooth curve no matter how much you scale up when you export, unlike using many straight segments.

I don't understand what you mean by it's main position of bending because the segments bend all the way along their length, not just in the middle. Bent segments are arcs.

I will consider STK fill for Pivot 5.

[Elliott]

I'm really quite excited for figures to be able to both stretch and bend, to those complaining - this doesn't remove features, it just makes existing techniques far, far easier and quicker to use.

[Extra]

I tested the bendy lines, and it was both entertaining, and I think it'll be really useful!
Hope it will be implemented in Pivot 5!

[Waters]

I've always thought that not having the ALT rotating stay is place sucked, like when you want to rotate the entire stick, but you don't want to have it scale. Please make this an option or maybe press Rightclick and ALT to rotate in place. That would be awesome. I don't really think I'll be using bent lines all that much except for stick making and background making and such but who knows, maybe when I actually get down to messing around with it I might find some useful things for this.

[Coweetie]

It only looks unsmooth because of aliasing. If you export with supersampling then it will look smooth. It will still look like a perfect smooth curve no matter how much you scale up when you export, unlike using many straight segments.

I don't understand what you mean by it's main position of bending because the segments bend all the way along their length, not just in the middle. Bent segments are arcs.

I see,
Sorry, I didn't mean it bends in the middle only, i meant the point where it gets bent- not sure if I can explain this correctly. Would be funny if you could not only bend it to a circle but waves. I may think too complicated again, using 2 segments to make it would work too...

Anyways,

I will consider STK fill for Pivot 5

Thank. You. So. Much!

[tuna]

erm, a bug I think

http://i.imgur.com/GO1ekUg.png

created a new figure type, and it highlights the onion skins of a totally unrelated figure, as if they shared an ID or whatever it was that let them have multiple onion skins. no idea why.

[Lord]

Spoiler:

Get swole

Though that was mildly entertaining, I probably wouldn't find too much use for this. It's a good idea though, just don't use CTRL. I really want to see the stick segment limit removed or raised, good work so far.

I've the same opinion as you.

[The Black Mamba]

It only looks unsmooth because of aliasing. If you export with supersampling then it will look smooth. It will still look like a perfect smooth curve no matter how much you scale up when you export, unlike using many straight segments.

I don't understand what you mean by it's main position of bending because the segments bend all the way along their length, not just in the middle. Bent segments are arcs.

I will consider STK fill for Pivot 5.

Please consider the stick segment limit removal, it's a pain for me.

[Kap'n Krunch]

I will consider STK fill for Pivot 5.