Abortion

[Daniël]

i'm revising my statement to anything under 16 weeks actually.

I'd agree with that, I see little to no reason for being allowed to have an abortion up until the age of 24 weeks. If you don't know whether you're pregnant or not by 16 weeks you should just fucking abort yourself.

[Skype]

So edgy.

Have you seen your signature? Lol.

I'm actually for abortion as long as it's done early.

I think life is pretty important, so it annoys me when people sleep around then get an abortion like it's nothing.

Make up your mind. And I bet you'd be singing a different tune if it was men who got pregnant.

[Alca]

So edgy.

Have you seen your signature? Lol.

I'm actually for abortion as long as it's done early.

I think life is pretty important, so it annoys me when people sleep around then get an abortion like it's nothing.

Make up your mind. And I bet you'd be singing a different tune if it was men who got pregnant.

My signature? There's a slight dichotomy between talking about performing an abortion with a coat hanger, and the contents of my signature, don't you think?

Those two statements aren't necessarily contradictory. I can still be for abortion while being annoyed at people who only get them only for their own convenience. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. I can support abortion if the mother is poor, or if she's unfit to raise the child correctly. I can still think it's bad when women who are more than capable enough of looking after a child decide to get an abortion just because they can't put the effort in.

And I bet you'd be singing a different tune if it was men who got pregnant.

Not really. I'd think the same as I do now. I can't speak for anyone else, but I assure you it wouldn't change my perception.

[Grams]

I also think if you're not a legal adult (under 18), you should be required to obtain consent from a parent/legal guardian. This is law in roughly half of the American states, but you can receive a judicial bypass. Essentially, the individual doesn't need consent from anyone. I just don't think someone under 18 is mature and level-headed enough to make that decision.

[Daniël]

I disagree. If you're not mature enough to make a decision on having an abortion, how are you gonna be mature enough to raise a child?

[Grams]

I disagree. If you're not mature enough to make a decision on having an abortion, how are you gonna be mature enough to raise a child?

You wouldn't be. If you're under 18, you're most likely still living with your parents. Hence, why they should help decide. They would have to take on a chunk of the burden.

[Daniël]

Well there's the issue. As a parent you cannot force your child to have an abortion. Which means there'd be no input there. While on the other hand, they shouldn't be able to force you not to have an abortion, since it's not their child and they don't have to give birth. With that comes that there'd be no actual burden if someone were to have an abortion.

I think the only influence parents should have is parental influence, the decision should be up to the mother.

[Grams]

Then maybe only parental acknowledgement is required. Not sure how that would work, though. What you said makes sense, but it still runs into the problem of the adolescent getting scared and making a hasty decision. Yes, maybe the only influence on the decision the parents should have is their own wisdom/experience; however the teen doesn't necessarily have to tell them. So, maybe required parental acknowledgement, if it can even be pulled off.

[Skype]

My signature? There's a slight dichotomy between talking about performing an abortion with a coat hanger, and the contents of my signature, don't you think?

Not in terms of edginess, but maybe I'm just not as professional at it as you are.

Those two statements aren't necessarily contradictory. I can still be for abortion while being annoyed at people who only get them only for their own convenience. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. I can support abortion if the mother is poor, or if she's unfit to raise the child correctly. I can still think it's bad when women who are more than capable enough of looking after a child decide to get an abortion just because they can't put the effort in.

Can't put the effort in? Do you have any idea what it entails to raise a child? (no, you don't) It is not a simple case of "oh I'm pregnant- I am in a comfortable monetary situation and am mentally and physically capable of doing it- that means I should keep it". It is life changing. If a woman gets pregnant and simply does not want a child, who are you to judge? I'll answer that for you- you do not deserve nor retain a right to judge ANY woman for having an abortion, regardless of the circumstance. It is that mentality entirely that makes abortion such a shit conversational topic. Men thinking they have a right to have an opinion on something like this. YOU don't carry the child for 9 months. YOU don't go through labour. YOUR body is not permanently modified. In fact, as a male, if you got a woman pregnant you could fuck off just as quick as you bust a nut inside her. The reason you think the way you do is not only because you are ignorant, but because you will never bear a child, nor will you ever experience the thought process of a woman bearing/potentially bearing a child.

Not really. I'd think the same as I do now. I can't speak for anyone else, but I assure you it wouldn't change my perception.

I assure you it really would.

I also think if you're not a legal adult (under 18), you should be required to obtain consent from a parent/legal guardian. This is law in roughly half of the American states, but you can receive a judicial bypass. Essentially, the individual doesn't need consent from anyone. I just don't think someone under 18 is mature and level-headed enough to make that decision.

Why should anyone other than the woman who's actually pregnant get to decide whether or not she births a child?

[Grams]

I assure you it really would.

I don't think that's something you can decide for someone. Men conceiving a child is not reality, so neither of you really know how it would affect one's opinion. Don't pretend otherwise.

I also think if you're not a legal adult (under 18), you should be required to obtain consent from a parent/legal guardian. This is law in roughly half of the American states, but you can receive a judicial bypass. Essentially, the individual doesn't need consent from anyone. I just don't think someone under 18 is mature and level-headed enough to make that decision.

Why should anyone other than the woman who's actually pregnant get to decide whether or not she births a child?

A 15 year-old hormone-filled teenager simply isn't wise enough to make a calm and collected decision. They might not tell anyone (including the father) and have the "child" aborted. That was my reasoning at the time of the post. Some of which still stands.

I'm not sure why you quoted an older statement when a more recent post of mine shows a alteration in opinion.

[Alca]

Not in terms of edginess, but maybe I'm just not as professional at it as you are.

I'd really love for you to explain how my signature is edgy in the first place, or even better, what relevance it has on the actual topic. At least I was referring to a specific post you made, randomly talking about my signature seems more like ad hominem.

I assure you it really would.

Until the day it becomes possible for men to give birth, there's no way you can possibly know. No matter which way you argue it, it's complete conjecture.

[Skype]

I also think if you're not a legal adult (under 18), you should be required to obtain consent from a parent/legal guardian. This is law in roughly half of the American states, but you can receive a judicial bypass. Essentially, the individual doesn't need consent from anyone. I just don't think someone under 18 is mature and level-headed enough to make that decision.

Why should anyone other than the woman who's actually pregnant get to decide whether or not she births a child?

A 15 year-old hormone-filled teenager simply isn't wise enough to make a calm and collected decision. They might not tell anyone (including the father) and have the "child" aborted. That was my reasoning at the time of the post. Some of which still stands.

I'm not sure why you quoted an older statement when a more recent post of mine shows a alteration in opinion.

Your "second opinion" makes even less sense. It is in fact pointless. Parental acknowledgement of what? That the child is pregnant? Regardless of what hasty decisions you think a pregnant, hormonal, 15 year old would make- it is her body to decide whether she wants to keep a child or not. Not her parents. Not her guardians. Not yours. Hers. Aborting a child without telling the biological father is a different matter entirely. Grown adults do this- no one, before a child, is wise enough to make any decisions- they only want a child. Not that they are wise enough to have one. Pregnancy and parenthood is different for everyone.

Not in terms of edginess, but maybe I'm just not as professional at it as you are.

I'd really love for you to explain how my signature is edgy in the first place, or even better, what relevance it has on the actual topic. At least I was referring to a specific post you made, randomly talking about my signature seems more like ad hominem.

I'd like you to explain how what I said is edgy. Using a coat hanger to abort a foetus is a common derogatory phrase. Faggot quotes in signatures are however, 2 edgy.

On the subject of relevance, it's a tad ironic that your post is not at all relevant. I understand your want (need) to continue on with my accusation of you being edgy, though.

I assure you it really would.

Until the day it becomes possible for men to give birth, there's no way you can possibly know. No matter which way you argue it, it's complete conjecture.

I draw my conclusion from the current social status of abortion, how women feel about it, how men feel about it, and the general state of sexual inequality. There are female rights movements and females campaigning for the right to do whatever the fuck they want to their bodies for a reason- the oppression of that right. If men were able to bear children, the outlook on abortions would be radically different. So would your opinion.

Your argument that it is not possible to know can also be applied to your own opinion.

[Grams]

Your "second opinion" makes even less sense. It is in fact pointless. Parental acknowledgement of what? That the child is pregnant? Regardless of what hasty decisions you think a pregnant, hormonal, 15 year old would make- it is her body to decide whether she wants to keep a child or not.

I very much understand it is her decision to make. That wasn't what I was debating. Are you saying it would hurt to let the parents know she was pregnant? Would it be adverse for the parents to give some insight on a tough decision to help the child? No. Not at all. This complete aversion to parental guidance is odd to me. Yes, parents don't always know what's best, especially if the teenager grew up in a rough home. Again, some insight doesn't hurt. So, no, it's not entirely pointless. But, I still respect your opinion.

Aborting a child without telling the biological father is a different matter entirely.

No, I don't believe it is. It would be his child, but it would also be the parent's grandchild. Regardless of what position of importance the grandchild holds in the grand scheme of things, it's still important. Plus, this is the Abortion debate topic. Where else would it be relevant?

[Alca]

I'd like you to explain how what I said is edgy. Using a coat hanger to abort a foetus is a common derogatory phrase. Faggot quotes in signatures are however, 2 edgy.

Ad hominem again? It really doesn't do much for your argument. Rather pathetic really. Although I suppose in any debate there's bound to be a handful of immature people chirping in.

Your argument that it is not possible to know can also be applied to your own opinion.

Did you miss the part where I said 'No matter which way you argue it, it's complete conjecture.'? I admit that there's no way for me to know. At this point it's just opinion. I was speaking personally, and given that you don't know the slightest thing about me, you're not really in any position to claim that my opinion is wrong.

[Mat]

Did you miss the part where I said 'No matter which way you argue it, it's complete conjecture.'? I admit that there's no way for me to know. At this point it's just opinion. I was speaking personally, and given that you don't know the slightest thing about me, you're not really in any position to claim that my opinion is wrong.

He's in a position to express his opinion though.